@Pete Zahut, your point of view is as valid as anyone else's. You may be right.
Roger Kirkpatrick
JoinedPosts by Roger Kirkpatrick
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Letter to my JW elder brother
by Roger Kirkpatrick ini sent the following letter to my older brother, a jw elder in grand prairie, texas, who actively shuns me since i left the religion for conscientious reasons two years ago.. may 11, 2017. dear ronnie,.
in the opening scenes of the movie gone with the wind, a field worker hollers out, “”quttin’ time!” big sam protests, saying, “i’s da fo’man on tara.
i sez when it’s quittin’ time.
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32
Letter to my JW elder brother
by Roger Kirkpatrick ini sent the following letter to my older brother, a jw elder in grand prairie, texas, who actively shuns me since i left the religion for conscientious reasons two years ago.. may 11, 2017. dear ronnie,.
in the opening scenes of the movie gone with the wind, a field worker hollers out, “”quttin’ time!” big sam protests, saying, “i’s da fo’man on tara.
i sez when it’s quittin’ time.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
@Pete Zahut wrote:
<<At the risk of sounding paranoid>>
Yeah, Pete, paranoia is one of the effects of denying one's true self for so long just to keep from being expelled from a corrupt religion by a group of self-righteous numbskulls. I'm not paranoid any longer. Embracing one's true self is the one of the most exhilarating sensations in the world. As for any future relationship with my brother, I am not interested. He's a pompous ass and always was.
As far as anyone reading information posted on this site, it should be perfectly clear by now that nobody gives a tinker's dam about Jehovah's Witnesses, except for JWs and ex-JWs. Outside of the Watchtower cult, JWs are a complete joke.
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Letter to my JW elder brother
by Roger Kirkpatrick ini sent the following letter to my older brother, a jw elder in grand prairie, texas, who actively shuns me since i left the religion for conscientious reasons two years ago.. may 11, 2017. dear ronnie,.
in the opening scenes of the movie gone with the wind, a field worker hollers out, “”quttin’ time!” big sam protests, saying, “i’s da fo’man on tara.
i sez when it’s quittin’ time.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
@TTWSYF, here's a little something I learned long ago: When one writes a letter and mails it, that letter virtually takes on a life of its own. When two people have a face to face conversation, they can walk away with two different perceptions of what was said. Same thing with a phone conversation. An email or a text message may never be received, read and replied to. A written letter is different, but there is a greater responsibility attached to writing letters. Thus, writing letters keeps the letter writer honest. I couldn't care less whether my brother read my letter or just tossed it in the trash unopened. That letter lives and carries with it a certain amount of energy, as is evident from the replies from those who read it on this site. It will continue to be read by many others besides my brother, because it has been shared on a number of blogs.
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Follow-up to my letter to my JW brother
by Roger Kirkpatrick ina follow-up to my letter to my brother which i posted earlier: .
my brother, ronnie, had texted my sister, linda, and me regarding our late mother's estate.
linda engaged ronnie in a text conversation about our mother’s ashes because he has ignored her texts for several years.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
A follow-up to my letter to my brother which I posted earlier:
My brother, Ronnie, had texted my sister, Linda, and me regarding our late mother's estate. Linda engaged Ronnie in a text conversation about our mother’s ashes because he has ignored her texts for several years. His response to her last text was so arrogant that I couldn't resist the urge to respond:
LINDA: I love you, Ronnie. Whatever you do with Mama is fine with me. I am just a curious sort. Will you still keep in touch with me now? I wonder about that as well. I haven’t heard anything about Larry since I was there 5 years ago. Or you either, practically.
RONNIE: I have no problem keeping in touch, but we have little in common. Our lives are centered around the truth.
ROGER: I think what you meant to say is that your lives are centered around what the Watchtower calls “present truth.” The Watchtower’s “present truth” is ever changing, ever shifting, like sand. It must change because it cannot stand the test of time. For example, we were told in 1969 that we would never grow old in this system of things. We were also told repeatedly that the end of this system would come within the 20th century. It’s all in print. You cannot name one Watchtower prophecy that ever came true. Not one. Strange for an organization which claimed IN PRINT to be God’s prophet, don’t you think?
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Letter to my JW elder brother
by Roger Kirkpatrick ini sent the following letter to my older brother, a jw elder in grand prairie, texas, who actively shuns me since i left the religion for conscientious reasons two years ago.. may 11, 2017. dear ronnie,.
in the opening scenes of the movie gone with the wind, a field worker hollers out, “”quttin’ time!” big sam protests, saying, “i’s da fo’man on tara.
i sez when it’s quittin’ time.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
@Pete Zahut, that's the nice thing about having disassociated from the Watchtower for conscientious reasons; I no longer have to post under an alias. I realize that the Watchtower is closely watching the posts on this site. It just illustrates how much they fear those who willingly leave their corrupt organization. (I have no idea who Simon is, nor do I care, to be honest.)
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Witnessing to two JW elders
by Roger Kirkpatrick ini was approached by two jehovah’s witness elders who handed me a pamphlet advertising the jw .org website.
each man carried a bible and an apple ipad.
they told me that they enjoyed visiting with people about the bible, and asked if i was a bible reader.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
@Listener, you wrote:
<<As regards the point about the GC being 'spirit begotten sons' due to their being in the sanctuary, I hadn't heard that before so appreciate you mentioning it.>>
The Watchtower's comment about serving in the sanctuary being representative of their spirit begotten condition while on earth is *not* said of the Great Crowd; however, since Revelation 7:15 clearly places the GC in the sanctuary, it naturally applies to them as well.
Prior to 1935, the Watchtower taught that all Christians were spirit anointed, though there were two classes. The hope of everlasting life on earth was understood to apply to non-Christians. Rutherford hatched the whole idea of two classes of Christians having separate hopes.
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Witnessing to two JW elders
by Roger Kirkpatrick ini was approached by two jehovah’s witness elders who handed me a pamphlet advertising the jw .org website.
each man carried a bible and an apple ipad.
they told me that they enjoyed visiting with people about the bible, and asked if i was a bible reader.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
I was approached by two Jehovah’s Witness elders who handed me a pamphlet advertising the JW .ORG website. Each man carried a Bible and an Apple iPad. They told me that they enjoyed visiting with people about the Bible, and asked if I was a Bible reader. I replied that I have read and studied the Bible and that, while I consider myself to be a spiritual person, I have no interest at all in organized religion. I also told them that I am familiar with Jehovah’s Witnesses enough to have concerns about some of their teachings. They asked if I could be more specific.
I said that I particularly have a problem with the Watchtower teaching of two classes of Christians having separate hopes, with only 144,000 going to heaven, when the Bible teaches that all Christians share one hope. (Ephesians 4:4)
I asked them to use their iPads to access the book Insight On the Scriptures (the Watchtower’s Bible encyclopedia), and to look up the word ‘sanctuary,’ making note of the definition provided there. They did so, noting the definition, “a divine habitation.” Next, I asked them to access the Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures and to look up Luke chapter 1, verses 9 and 21, making note of the literal meaning of the Greek word rendered there as ‘sanctuary.’ They did so, acknowledging the expression “divine habitation.” Next, I asked them to look up Revelation chapter 7, verse 15, making note of the literal meaning of the same Greek word rendered there as ‘temple.’ They did so, again acknowledging the expression “divine habitation.” I then asked the following question: According to that scripture, where in the spiritual temple did John see the “great crowd” worshiping God, in the outer courtyard (as the Watchtower teaches) or in the sanctuary? They had to admit that, according to that scripture, John saw the “great crowd” worshiping God in the sanctuary (divine habitation) of the spiritual temple.
Finally, I asked them to look up the word ‘temple’ in the book Insight On the Scriptures to see what it says concerning the hope of those worshiping God in the sanctuary of the spiritual temple. They read for themselves where it says, “The Holy [or sanctuary] represents their condition as spirit-begotten sons of God, with heavenly life in view, and they will attain to that heavenly reward when their fleshly bodies are laid aside in death.” I asked if they believe the “great crowd” to be spirit-begotten sons of God. They never did answer that question, but said that they needed to do some more research on the information I had provided.
I then asked them to access the article, “Is It Wrong to Change Your Religion?” in the July 2009 Awake magazine. I directed their attention to the following statement from that article: “No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds objectionable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” After they had read that statement, I asked, “In view of that statement, why do Jehovah’s Witnesses actively shun exemplary Christians, including family members, who voluntarily leave the religion for conscientious reasons, such as Watchtower teachings which contradict the Bible?” Again, they could not answer my question.
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Letter to my JW elder brother
by Roger Kirkpatrick ini sent the following letter to my older brother, a jw elder in grand prairie, texas, who actively shuns me since i left the religion for conscientious reasons two years ago.. may 11, 2017. dear ronnie,.
in the opening scenes of the movie gone with the wind, a field worker hollers out, “”quttin’ time!” big sam protests, saying, “i’s da fo’man on tara.
i sez when it’s quittin’ time.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
It is not my intent to argue with ex-Jws–especially former elders–about what is and is not Watchtower policy because, as we all know, official Watchtower policy is one thing and common JW practice is another. Having said that, anyone who watched Australian Branch Overseer Terrence O’Brien’s testimony before the Royal Commission knows that he stated–under oath and on the record–that those who disassociated are not subject to any restrictions if they renounce their disassociation, as opposed to those disfellowshipped for wrongdoing. It is a complete waste of time to argue about Watchtower policy because each elder body has complete freedom to do whatever it wishes to do and the Branch will back them up. I was a member of seven different congregations during my time as a JW. Every congregation did things differently from the others and, without exception, each congregation felt it was the only one doing things correctly. I did not post my letter to my brother to stir up a pissing contest with anyone who considers himself an expert on Watchtower policy because there is no such thing. If any former elder thinks he has more credibility than anyone else, he is mistaken. As Ray Franz correctly noted, each congregation was under the control of those having the weakest consciences, meaning the biggest dipsticks, and those were the elders. (Screen shot that!)
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Ex-JW meet-up in the Austin/San Marcos/New Braunfels/San Antonio area
by Roger Kirkpatrick inmy daughter and i are ex-jws, and we live halfway between new braunfels and san marcos, which is halfway between austin and san antonio.
we are interested in meeting up with any ex-jws in this area.. please feel free to contact me by email at [email protected] .
roger kirkpatrick.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
My daughter and I are ex-JWs, and we live halfway between New Braunfels and San Marcos, which is halfway between Austin and San Antonio. We are interested in meeting up with any ex-JWs in this area.
Please feel free to contact me by email at [email protected]
Thanks,
Roger Kirkpatrick
New Braunfels
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Letter to my JW elder brother
by Roger Kirkpatrick ini sent the following letter to my older brother, a jw elder in grand prairie, texas, who actively shuns me since i left the religion for conscientious reasons two years ago.. may 11, 2017. dear ronnie,.
in the opening scenes of the movie gone with the wind, a field worker hollers out, “”quttin’ time!” big sam protests, saying, “i’s da fo’man on tara.
i sez when it’s quittin’ time.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
I sent the following letter to my older brother, a JW elder in Grand Prairie, Texas, who actively shuns me since I left the religion for conscientious reasons two years ago.
May 11, 2017
Dear Ronnie,
In the opening scenes of the movie Gone With the Wind, a field worker hollers out, “”Quttin’ time!” Big Sam protests, saying, “I’s da fo’man on Tara. I sez when it’s quittin’ time. Quittin’ time!”
You and I grew up being told that our father had nobly demonstrated loyalty to God by willingly going to prison in lieu of performing alternative service during World War II, which had been deemed by the Watchtower to be a violation of Christian neutrality. Had such a course really been required by God, or merely by men claiming to speak for God? The answer to that question became apparent in the mid-1990s when the Watchtower then determined that performing alternative service during wartime was a “matter of conscience” for each JW to decide. I was stunned by that reversal, and I asked Dad how it felt to have gone to prison for nothing–not for any loyalty to God, but for loyalty to an organization and to a belief system built on shifting sand. Of course, Dad had way too much invested in being a loyal JW for him to say anything critical of the organization.
You’ll no doubt recall how Dad enjoyed witnessing at the County Jail in Fort Worth in his later years. On one occasion, a new prisoner approached Dad and asked if he was a clergyman, and Dad answered yes. The brother accompanying Dad reported the incident and the Society chastised Dad saying that claiming to be a clergyman identified one as a part of Christendom. Naturally, Dad humbly accepted the reproof. Recently, in a widely publicized court case in which the Society was being sued for its handling of evidence in a case of child sexual abuse, Watchtower lawyers tried to claim clergy privilege while simultaneously maintaining that JW elders are not members of the clergy. After two days of strenuously debating that issue, the Watchtower issued a public statement acknowledging that JW elders are, indeed, members of the clergy. (So much for the claim that there is no clergy/laity division among JWs!) I couldn’t help but wonder how Dad would have felt about that. I also found it curious that such “new light” was not revealed in the pages of the Watchtower but in a court of law. After entering that statement into the public record, the Watchtower withdrew its defense and settled that case out of court, as well as another pending case dealing with child sexual abuse.
Keep in mind that the Watchtower Society has repeatedly asserted in print that it is impossible for one to gain an accurate knowledge of the Bible without the aid of Watchtower publications. This is why JWs are strongly counseled against getting together as family groups and reading the Bible alone without using a Watchtower publication for direction. Evidently, the Watchtower views itself like Big Sam in Gone With the Wind: It isn’t “the truth” until the Watchtower says it’s “the truth.”
Please read the excellent article, “Is It Wrong to Change Your Religion?” in the July 2009 Awake, paying special attention to the statement, “No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds objectionable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” Does that statement apply only to those changing religions to become a JW, or does it also apply to morally upright JWs who voluntarily leave the religion for conscientious reasons, such as unscriptural Watchtower teachings and practices? The practice of ostracizing and shunning such persons is one of the reasons Russia has deemed JW.ORG to be an extremist religion.
In his book, Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief, Lawrence Wright wrote: “People have the right to believe whatever they choose. But it is a different matter to use the protections afforded a religion by the First Amendment to falsify history, to propagate forgeries, and to cover up human-rights abuses.”
Speaking specifically of ISIS, President Obama said: “We must work together to decisively and unequivocally reject hateful ideologies, teachings and practices that are incompatible with the values of religious tolerance, mutual respect and human dignity.”
I have personally concluded that any religious organization which suppresses truth, or which manufactures and propagates its own truth, is a dangerous and harmful cult. Furthermore, I firmly believe that any religious organization which violates the basic human rights of its members–such as shunning members who leave for conscientious reasons–should have its tax-exempt status revoked.
I respect your right to believe differently from what I have stated here, and I would enjoy visiting with you from time to time and never discuss our respective beliefs. I have never desired to adopt a lifestyle or a habit which would, in and of itself, disqualify me from returning to Jehovah’s Witnesses if I so desired; in fact, since I voluntarily disassociated and was never disfellowshiped for wrongdoing, I could renounce my disassociation tomorrow and resume being a JW again with no restrictions whatsoever, as opposed to those disfellowshiped for wrongdoing. However, I can assure you, that will never happen. I would rather have questions I cannot answer than have answers I cannot question.
If you are ever interested in visiting under the condition I stated above, feel free to call me. In any event, be assured of my brotherly affection for you.
Sincerely, your brother,
Roger Kirkpatrick
New Braunfels, TX 78132